The Mormon God Is So Small...

I propose that the Mormon concept of God, and hence the person they call Elohim, is a very small person.

In LDS theology, all of us - humans, angels, and gods - all come from the same place: a primordial pool of intelligences. We all emerge from this pool by being birthed in the spirit and then later we are incarnated on earth or some similar planet. On the LDS view, every one of us comes into this physical universe in the same way, so every one of us has the same potential for godhood. The only difference between us and Elohim is that he was exalted before us and so he has a head start.

Well, that's not the whole story. Since this eternal progression of gods must be only a potentially infinite regression, given that every god is contingent on time space matter and energy, there must logically be a god which was the first to emerge from the pool of intelligences. LDS devotees are unable to answer how this first god had the power to emerge, and for the moment we can give them this stopping point for the sake of argument. But it is admitted by LDS that this first god sired every god that emerged after him. But how did this god sire his first wife to emerge from the pool in order to sire the next god child...?

But anyway, this is the point:

IF: Elohim had to be sired,

THEN: the god who first emerged without being sired was more powerful than Elohim,

THEN: Elohim is less powerful,

THEN: Elohim cannot be called all-powerful as he describes himself in the Bible,

THEN: Elohim is a liar.

Why would anyone could buy into this system of thinking? Having a testimony without answering this logical fallacy will not suffice to arrive at an understanding of truth. Truth deals with facts not opinions and assertions. Perhaps someone who follows LDS teaching can explain their belief in something as unreasonable as the eternal progression of gods? Is it only because Smith and Young said so?

Why does any of this matter? Because as Jesus said, "... those who worship Him [God] must worship in spirit and truth." If we follow any doctrine which is not true, it behooves us as worshipers of the God to worship Him in truth by shunning every falsehood.

What is your foundation of truth? I would recommend that you read the Gospel of John in the Bible to see what God says in His word about truth and how it can be known.

Time Existed Before God?

from http://www.promormon.blogspot.com/ ...

"If we stick to the strict language applied to the verses like Isaiah 43:10 invoked by LDS critics stretching for proof of this being a statement against the existence of other real gods, then we must concede that God notes that there was also a time before his own creation."

Here's the verse, Isaiah 43:10 (I love the YouVersion website)...

"Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

So what the LDS would say is, "See? Time existed before God!"

Ok, slow down for a moment. Let's think about this logically:

IF: Time existed before God,

THEN: God did not create everything,

THEN: God is a finite being,

THEN: By definition God is not really God as He defines Himself in the Bible, ie: the Creator of absolutely everything,

THEN: God would be a liar;

ALSO: God would be contingent on Time existing before Him,

THEN: Time would be more powerful than God,

THEN: Time would be God instead,

THEN: God would be a liar;

I could go on. The logical implications of the ProMormon statement are far reaching.

Regardless, just because God says that there was no god formed neither before nor after Him, this does not logically imply that anything existed before God. It is possible for God the be the ultimate Source of all things and to logically say that nothing existed before Him, even other gods.

IF: God is God,

THEN: He would by necessity be the ultimate Source,

THEN: Time, space, matter... everything would be created by Him and would be contingent on Him for their existence, as it says in Acts 17:28, "for in Him we live and move and have our being..."

and in Colossians 1:15-18, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

Hugh Nibley Defends Book Of Abraham

From Mormonism Exposed website:

“Did he [Joseph Smith, Jr.} really think he was translating? If so he was acting in good faith. But was he really translating? If so, it was by a process which quite escapes the understanding of the specialists and lies in the realm of the imponderable....
“Today nobody claims that Joseph Smith got his information through ordinary scholarly channels. In that case one wonders how any amount of checking along ordinary scholarly channels is going to get us very far.”
(Dr. Hugh Nibley, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1968, page 101)

So here we have Nibley explaining as best he can the means by which Joseph Smith gleaned the revelation of the Book of Abraham from an egyptian burial scroll. He basically says that Smith didn't really translate the scroll as much as he used the scroll as a "point of contact" for whatever revelation God might have for him. God could've revealed to him the plans to build a 747 passenger jet just as well as the history of the origins of the earth and man's pre-existence. So really the scroll was just a means of revelation, not the content of the revelation itself.

Fair enough, but this simply leads to more questions...

What is this called in the Bible? Divination, sorcery, spiritism. (See Deuteronomy)

Why would a prophet of God resort to a pagan practice such as divination?

Why does God contradict Himself in what He revealed to Moses and what He revealed to Joseph Smith?

Under such circumstances, which prophet do you favor? The one who came first? The one whose prophecies have been documented as coming true? Biblically this is the standard approach.

But where does that leave Joseph Smith?

High and dry.

His prophecies had about the same chance of fulfillment as MY prophecies, and Deuteronomy tells us that if he tanks on just one prophecy then he qualifies as a FALSE PROPHET.

Something to think about, all you Latter Rain - Dominionist - Word of Faith-ers.

Do you really want to be in the same camp as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young?

Some very cool music...

Seawind

These guys are so awesome! I have this album on vinyl and it's still great to listen to. My favorite track is "We've Got A Way."

Enjoy